A herbalist friend brought me round some Ground elder [Gout/Goat weed] last year when I was suffering. It had no effect. Don't use Elder- it's loaded with toxin btw and looks similar.

I took to using Elderflower cordial as a wine mixer with some success [ ie: Not beer , at least]- it's rather nice.

I can well imagine the syrup being useful, on this background- but as I don't need it now will see what other reactions you get to this idea.

I reckon Meta will try it- as he's being hit right now and he's a big fan of holistic/ natural remedies.

Dan said:

?but berries are fine for everything fro pies to jellies.

And don't forget wine

Elderberries have been mentioned before around here (Use the search box for a full list), and probably qualify for a bit of a write-up on GoutPal. There are two potential benefits for gout sufferers:

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1. Anthocyanins

These are the compounds that give color to cherries and metamorph's Black Bean Broth. There is at least one study suggesting that these natural compounds act in the same way as NSAIDs – a kind of natural ibuprofen / naproxen / indomethacin.

2. Quercetin

This is a flavonoid common in many foods. Elderberries are rich in quercetin, which is very high on my list for a better summary in the Gout Treatment section.

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Dan, please can you post that recipe?

Yes, Dan, this is the right place, and thank you.

I'll incorporate it into the Gout Home Remedies pages soon.

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In the last part, you talk about reducing dosage. Do you mean reducing dosage of allopurinol? This is very unwise without blood test results to confirm the drop in uric acid.

Dan said:

He believes that your should try to get off perscription drugs if at all possible. He claims the long term studies of drug therpy are not as promising as once believed. That years on some drugs are starting to cause other medical problems that doctors did not know about back then.

But there is one indisputable fact that you have to be very clear about. Years of uncontrolled high uric acid are completely ruinous to your health.

Allopurinol usage MUST be determined by uric acid test. Just because you have no gout flares, does not mean that gout is controlled. It is extremely common to go for years with no flares, but with urate deposits slowly building up. Gout flares are absolutely no indication in the short term that allopurinol is working. And in the long term, stopping allopurinol without reference to uric acid levels simply puts you at the highest possible risk for serious gout damage.

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I am not advocating indiscriminate long term use of unnecessary gout medications, but I'm bound by my principles of care, and by my love for humanity, to warn you that if you do not respect the principle of setting allopurinol dosage according to uric acid test results, you run a high risk of permanent damage to bone, cartilage and tendon tissue, and a medium risk of damage (which might be reversible) to kidneys and other body tissue. No amount of elderberry juice will fix that!

Dan said:

?Even allopurinal can cause damage to your kidneys or liver. Maybe in a small percentage but if your in that percentage it is a big deal. Until modern medician come up with better meds we have to look. If you are the one who can no longer take meds for uric acid you better hope someone somewhere comes up with something.

We've been here before. I believe there is more evidence to suggest that allopurinol is good for kidneys than bad. In fact, I cannot recall any evidence that suggests allopurinol is bad for kidneys, so I can't refute it. I can certainly see plenty of evidence that shows high uric acid can damage kidneys. Use the search box above, and enter kidney to see the positive benefits, and other discussions. Liver problems might occur, but this is a very complex subject. As Hans has said recently, it is important for gout patients to have frequent liver and kidney function tests alongside their uric acid tests. I can't find any evidence that long term use of allopurinol is damaging to either kidneys or liver, but I'd certainly appreciate some links or study titles so I can investigate further.

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What concerns me most about your regime Dan, is the confusion between allopurinol, a treatment for lowering uric acid, and elderberry, a treatment for reducing inflammation and pain.

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Of course, you have the right to choose whatever gout treatments you want, but if you are concerned about allopurinol usage, your options should be to focus on alternative treatments that lower uric acid, though these are even less well monitored, from a side-effect point of view, than allopurinol, or other Gout Medications To Avoid Gout .

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I really do take your point about the amount of side-effect information compared to usage information, bit surely this is just a product of applying controls. Not that FDA controls are perfect, but at leat there are some. Elderberry juice vendors are not obliged to exercise the same levels of controls or disclose side-effects, but search for “elderberry poisoning” will tell a different story.

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I can tell by the tone of your previous reply that you are not best pleased with some of the crticism. Believe me when I say that it is entirely motivated by concern for your health. I would like to be supportive of anyone finding acceptable alternatives to pharmaceutical monopolies and cartels, however, the same principles of gout treatment apply whichever treatment options you choose (including diet). By all means take whatever steps necessary to deal with the pain in the short term, but do not neglect the vital uric acid controls that ensure gout freedom in the long term.

When ANY disease is incurable, out will come the 1,000 foods, herbs, nostrums and prayers to enrich the charlatans selling the crap. People with incurable, untreatable diseases are desperate.

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It is a shame that when a REAL and USEFUL treatment comes along, the crap peddlers persist and people STILL fall for the old nostrums.

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It happens with all disease, from plague to cancer.

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Before 1950, gout was virtually untreatable except for pain mediation and was a slow death?sentence? but that did not stop doctors (both real and witch) from prescribing useless remedies while bilking patients in excruciating pain.

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In reality, somebody with an elderberry orchard probably heard the cherry growers were making a FORTUNE on “gout cures” and thought he'd get on the banwagon. Like I said, human nature.

For the elderberry lovers:

The flowers have been used in Europe for many years to cure fever and colds? It is also used as an expectorant to cure asthma and bronchitis

It is effective against flu

This herb is often used to cure and prevent upper respiratory infections. Research shows that elderberry can decrease mucus secretion and can even reduce the swelling in the mucus membranes and can decrease nasal congestion

The flowers as well as the berries of the elderberry tree are used for making medicines? The berries contain flavonoids, which are known to protect the body from free radicals, boost the immunity, and add flavor to food. Initial studies have shown that elderberry can be used to treat herpes, viruses and maybe even HIV

The bark of the elderberry tree has been known to be used to cure constipation and water retention? It is also used to induce vomiting

The leaves of elderberry are often used with creams and in sitz baths to cure eczema, boils, arthritis and other inflammatory problems

People prefer to use elderberry in herbal mixtures and as elderberry syrup to treat bronchitis, sinusitis and influenza

Traditionally, elderberry has been used to treat and bring relief to congestion, water retention, inflammation, and to relieve pain

It also cures infections, diabetes, rheumatism, inflammatory diseases and neuralgia

Elderberry can act as a laxative, as a medicine to cure skin disorders, can aid in weight loss and as a diuretic

In my experience, any food that is claimed to cure EVERYTHING, cures nothing. Best, and cruelest line: “and maybe even HIV.”

It is a shame that claims like that can escape criminal prosecution.

• Abstract

Eur Cytokine Netw. 2001 Apr-Jun;12(2):290-6.

The
effect of Sambucol, a black elderberry-based, natural product, on the
production of human cytokines: I. Inflammatory cytokines.

Barak V, Halperin T, Kalickman I.

Immunology Laboratory for Tumor Diagnosis, Department of Oncology, Hadassah University Hospital, Jerusalem, Israel.

PMID: 11399518

Q:In view of the increasing popularity of botanical supplements, such studies and investigations in
vitro, in vivo and in clinical trials need to be developed

As Elderberry is incapable of patenting- I'm not holding my breath! However, it does show that traditional remedies are valid- if research can be done.

I think people who privately pursue this path deserve success, in any situation.

The less attention/success accorded by the Pharma Co's to healthy alternatives?-the more people are driven to find more natural treatments. In some cases meds are all that will do the trick.